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Re: [TSL] manifests process & "missing" child
mark-toss <toss@markabout.com> on 03/15/2010

Thank you, Sue, for your analysis and insights.  You clearly spent some time looking into the question and I really appreciate it.

Your opinion that "Katerzina Stumphold" is my Katharina is useful to me, because I was beginning to doubt my own interpretation (due to the lack of her child Josephine accompanying her).  There certainly seem to be plenty of specifics confirming that Katharina and Katerzina are one and the same.

Indeed I have the Hermann Stumfal/Stumfel records for the 1907 Kroonland arrival.  Hermann, Katharina, and Josephine were together in Ottawa, La Salle County, Illinois in the 1920 census.  Hermann and Katharina both died there later in that decade.  Much of what I know about Hermann's family is from a probate court in La Salle.

It's hard to read, but I think the 1910 Lapland manifest indicates that Katerzina/Katharina's final destination was with her husband Hermann at Galesburg, Illinois (spelled more like Galesbierg in the manifest).  If this is Galesburg, it is about 75 miles southwest of Ottawa, in a different county.

I particularly appreciate your opinion that it is unlikely that Katharina would be travelling with her 3-year-old daughter Josephine and that this fact would be omitted from the manifest.  Obviously, this is critical to determining what actually transpired.

The family "story" is that Katharina travelled with daughter Josephine to join Hermann in Illinois, leaving another daughter (Karoline) behind in Austria/Romania with an aunt.  Then at some point Hermann supposedly travelled back to Romania to bring Karoline to the US with him, but the aunt insisted that Karoline stay with her, and Hermann returned empty-handed.  I have been unable *so far* to locate a later travel record for Hermann and/or Josephine, for what that's worth.

Based on what I have found from the manifests, the family story appears to be incorrect as to Josephine travelling with Katharina.  If I can find a later record of Josephine travelling to the US by herself or with her father (or anyone else), then that would certainly confirm that key parts of the story are incorrect.  

Thanks again.  Maybe I'm not going crazy after all... :-)

Mark

Monday, March 15, 2010, 11:45:31 AM, Sue wrote:
> Hi Mark,

> I'm sure that you have found Katharina "Stumpold."   The missing Josephine
> is a puzzle to me too.  btw. she was going to husband Hermann.   She was 37
> .. it was overwritten, but the 7 has a slash through it (check the others
> on the page.)  Her Mum's name looks more like Anna Silvolka  ;-}

> I looked up Hermann's emigration in 1907 and as he travelled on the 
> KROONLAND (same shipping line) from Antwerp (same port of departure) it
> would follow that his family would take the same route.  I expect you've
> found him before, but if not, HERMANN STUMFAL/ STUMFEL arrived at New York
> on August 6th 1907, entered twice ... (wrongly indexed as 71, then 
> correctly as 41, where he was held for one day as a "likely public charge.
> [LPC]") ... he was leaving behind Katherina Stumfal at "..Gurohomura..?"
> ... there is too much  written over who he as going to, for me to be able
> to figure it out.  Likely someone vouched for him, for him to be held for
> one day only.

> I think it is highly unlikely that the child would have been omitted from
> the list.   Even if they'd missed including her with her mother, there
> would have been cross-references.  They were very good at making 
> relationship notes.   At only 3 in 1910, I don't think she would have 
> any/many memories of such a trip.  I wonder if she stayed with Grandma and
> that Mum went back later, to get her ...or, she arrived later with a friend
> or relative.    In the 1900's to would expect her to be travelling under
> her own name, listed as niece for example.   My ggrandmother had gone to
> Australia with her aunt in 1862 and was not listed under her own name, but
> collectively under her aunt's married name and age 7 rather than 9 ... took
> a while to prove that one, the final step being that aunt's death 
> certificate showing "no issue."

> Going to northern IL ... Johnsburg? ... there is a possibility of Canadian
> arrival too.

> I looked at the family in the 1920 census and it shows 1910 for both 
> Josephine and her mother ... curiously father says he emigrated in 1896,
> however, on the 1907 manifest, it says he had never been in the US 
> before.  I wonder who answered the questions?   The actual Emigration Year
> on both naturalization (for those who arrived prior to 1906) and on census
> forms is the most misremembered part of the date ... usually by 1 to 3
> years ... 11 years is a bit of a stretch.

> btw. you are right about how many spellings of the surname ... wow !

> Sue
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